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Post By
Upper_Krust

In Reply To
Mek

Subj: Re: Again? Always. [SPOILERS]
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 10:03:25 am EDT (Viewed 2 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Again? Always. [SPOILERS]
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 10:20:00 pm EDT (Viewed 2 times)

Previous Post


> > > This is where you (and the reviewer) err.
>
> > According to you, anyways.
>
> Me and logic, yes.

.... That doesn't make any sense what so ever.


> > So? If reactions from several people here -and elsewhere- are any indication, I doubt anyone will be shedding tears over the omission of Donald Blake.
>
> Possibly not, but some of those are probably doing it for all the wrong reasons...the 'lets give Thor no weaknesses' crowd.

While I am loathe to admit you do have a bit of a point there, I doubt the whole 'no weaknesses' thing is apart of it for some. Some of us -myself included- are not really fans of dual identities. And why bother with having to juggle the transformation crap? From the sound of things with the movie's story so far, having at least 1/3rd of the movie dedicated to just Don Blake wouldn't exactly be very entertaining. I'd rather they just go with a Sigurd Jarlson-type thing -with him essentially being depowered- and leave it at that.

> > Besides, has everyone forgotten about Sigurd Jarlson already? (I think... I haven't read the rest of Walt's run sadly) Not that they'll use that in the movie, but just something to think about in the interim until filming starts.
>
> Was Sigurd Jarlson in Journey Into Mystery #83...?

Upper Krust, with all due respect, don't insult my intelligence. Please. I may pull the 'dumb young adult new fan' act every now and then to confuse and frustrate people here for my own amusement, but I'm not THAT blind to 'Mighty Thor' history.


> I'm not asking for a rigid verbatim adaptation. But it would be nice to have them tell his origin in some manner not a completely different story.

Funny, that's not the impression I've gotten from your posts on the subject. You want Don Blake, you want Earth, you want Jane Foster (while I'm aware you haven't crowed on about that, I'm certain it'd pop up eventually), you want Thor's banishment from Asgard to learn humility... if those aren't thinly veiled 'requests' for a verbatim adaptation, then color me bright neon green.

> > > Firstly, a god amongst gods is less special than a god amongst mortals.
>
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Thor one of the more important Nordic gods? I'm a little hazy on my Norse mythology, but I think there must've been some hierarchy like the Greek/Romans had.
>
> He was one of the most important, but common sense tells us that he stands out as less special amongst gods than mortals.

My common sense tells me that it'd still stand out for one of the more 'high and mighty'/revered gods to get bannihilated by the mack daddy of all, Odin. But again, that's just my take on it.

> > > Secondly, if this movie is a precursor to Thor on Earth (say in a sequel) then the Thor of the first movie is a bragging bully (to deserve banishment to Earth). That means Thor of this movie is no hero. In the event that they totally remove the need for Thor to be banished then it poops over so much continuity that you may as well call it Ultimate Thor.
>
> > You can't really say that for sure until we actually know more details. That's just a grand/gross assumption. (And you know what they say about 'assume'...) Besides, who really knows what exactly happens? I'd like to remain cautiously optimistic instead of overly pessimistic.
>
> Obviously I can't say for sure but thats why we are all here...to discuss...to speculate.

That is true. But what you're doing to me is more or less acting like everything is set in stone when... it isn't. Granted, there are others who are just as guilty of it as well, so you're not the only one.


> > Oh, so there's a difference in names, is there? I must've missed the memo.
>
> Theres a difference between Marvel Thor and mythic Thor, in terms of their history. But this movie seems to be alienating much of what makes Marvel Thor unique. As such it seems a waste of the franchise.

Well, it obviously has the Warriors 3, that's a Marvel creation. I wouldn't be surprised if they threw in Amora and Skurge for a cameo as well, those two are Marvel creations as well. (Albeit Amora is based on Freyja slightly, but that's another pandora's box) Obviously it has the whole 'Odin banishes Thor to Midgard because he's a braggart' plot thread too.

I think you're overlooking a few of the more distinctive details. But maybe you aren't, I can never tell with you anymore.

> > Suuuuuuuure, you just keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night.
>
> I sleep mightily, but thanks for your concern.

You're welcome.

Hello Mek! \:\-\)

> > Me and logic, yes.

> .... That doesn't make any sense what so ever.

It makes perfect sense.

> > Possibly not, but some of those are probably doing it for all the wrong reasons...the 'lets give Thor no weaknesses' crowd.

> While I am loathe to admit you do have a bit of a point there,

Well its a step up from "none of his arguments hold water". \:\-D

> I doubt the whole 'no weaknesses' thing is apart of it for some.

Its obviously a part of it for some.

I would agree its not the reasoning for everyone.

> Some of us -myself included- are not really fans of dual identities.

Didn't you post last week that you are enjoying JMS run?

> And why bother with having to juggle the transformation crap?

1. In the beginning...there was Don Blake.
2. It gives Thor legitimate ties to Earth and a reason to live there.
3. It gives Thor a weakness.
4. It raises moral questions.
5. It raises class questions (more relevant in the sixties than now, but not yet irrelevant).
6. It gives us a better contrast.
7. It expands the history of the character.
8. It gives us an interesting plot device.
9. It means audiences can better empathise with the character.

> From the sound of things with the movie's story so far, having at least 1/3rd of the movie dedicated to just Don Blake wouldn't exactly be very entertaining.

Why would it necessarily be 1/3rd? It could be 1/5th or 1/6th...and I am thinking specifically of a Thor movie synopsis that shall remain otherwise unmentioned. ;-p

> I'd rather they just go with a Sigurd Jarlson-type thing -with him essentially being depowered- and leave it at that.

Doesn't exactly give us the same amount of gravitas, does it.

> > Was Sigurd Jarlson in Journey Into Mystery #83...?

> Upper Krust, with all due respect, don't insult my intelligence. Please.

...well since you said please.

> I may pull the 'dumb young adult new fan' act every now and then to confuse and frustrate people here for my own amusement, but I'm not THAT blind to 'Mighty Thor' history.

Then don't insult my intelligence by suggesting Sigurd Jarlson for the Thor origin movie.

> > I'm not asking for a rigid verbatim adaptation. But it would be nice to have them tell his origin in some manner not a completely different story.

> Funny, that's not the impression I've gotten from your posts on the subject.

I wasn't aware you did impressions?

> You want Don Blake, you want Earth, you want Jane Foster (while I'm aware you haven't crowed on about that, I'm certain it'd pop up eventually), you want Thor's banishment from Asgard to learn humility...

That sounds like all the key ingredients from the origins of the Mighty Thor's origins....everything you want to throw out it seems.

> if those aren't thinly veiled 'requests' for a verbatim adaptation,

A verbatim adaptation would be self defeating for a number of reasons.

Firstly, you need about 120 pages of story to fit into a movie, JIM #83-88 is far too piecemeal to be made a coherant movie.

Secondly, the exact nature of some of the original elements are a tad goofy (the Stonemen from Saturn).

Thirdly, some of the elements are out of date. Thor versus Communism for instance.

So a verbatim translation cannot work.

However, that doesn't mean we throw out the entire history of the character. With a few tweaks it can easily be made to work.

> then color me bright neon green.

I'll get the paint.

> > He was one of the most important, but common sense tells us that he stands out as less special amongst gods than mortals.

> My common sense tells me that it'd still stand out for one of the more 'high and mighty'/revered gods to get bannihilated by the mack daddy of all, Odin. But again, that's just my take on it.

He might stand out, but to a lesser degree.

> > Obviously I can't say for sure but thats why we are all here...to discuss...to speculate.

> That is true. But what you're doing to me is more or less acting like everything is set in stone when... it isn't. Granted, there are others who are just as guilty of it as well, so you're not the only one.

We can only base our arguments/discussion on the evidence at hand.

> > Theres a difference between Marvel Thor and mythic Thor, in terms of their history. But this movie seems to be alienating much of what makes Marvel Thor unique. As such it seems a waste of the franchise.

> Well, it obviously has the Warriors 3, that's a Marvel creation.

...and in one of the earlier script reviews it actually mentioned the script was dour and humourless. Which is at odds with the Warriors Three who were basically created for light relief (even if they have evolved slightly throughout the years).

> I wouldn't be surprised if they threw in Amora and Skurge for a cameo as well, those two are Marvel creations as well. (Albeit Amora is based on Freyja slightly, but that's another pandora's box) Obviously it has the whole 'Odin banishes Thor to Midgard because he's a braggart' plot thread too.

> I think you're overlooking a few of the more distinctive details.

Unlikely.

> But maybe you aren't, I can never tell with you anymore.

I like to be mercurial.

> > I sleep mightily, but thanks for your concern.

> You're welcome.

Much appreciated.


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