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Subj: The choir is listenting and the sermon is excellent.
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 at 10:22:51 am EST (Viewed 122 times)
Reply Subj: Hulk Vs Thor my opinions (spoilers within)
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 at 09:41:36 am EST (Viewed 407 times)
Quote:Most of you are probably wondering why I would be posting this on the Thor board.
Well firstly being that I am a UK resident, it meant that I had to wait a good few weeks after the old US before I saw the Hulk vs... films and I did actually wait till I got the DVD to watch, I didn't just go on youtube and hey presto. But anyhow getting back to the topic.
I have to admit that I was left feeling somewhat dissatisfied after seeing Hulk vs Thor and also dissatisfied at Hulk vs Wolverine. I mean, the way they captured the Hulk was absurd, it was preposterous for want of a better term. Deadpool tranquilising him? What?! I mean, for one thing, even if Deadpool had ammo capable of breaking through the Hulk's hide, he'd need tranquiliser potent enough to put pod of Blue Whales out for the night... and even then... the Hulks system would just burn through it and he'd barely even feel drowzy! Also, if that was all it took to capture the Hulk... why did they even need Wolverine? They could have just shot him like Deadpool did anyway... apologies for rambling. Its just a very silly plot hole I had to point out.
HULK vs THOR
When I got the DVD this was the first one I watched, because I was expecting something along the lines of Matrix Revolutions Neo vs Smith... epic! Instead what I saw was a one sided beat down. Now you'd probably think "What's his problem? He's a Hulk fan he should be happy!" Well, I tell the gods honest truth, I was not happy really. I actually felt that both Hulk and Thor ended up with egg on their faces as a result of the film. Sure it was an overall enjoyable film to me on a very base level, but as far as it being of any use to the characters it wasn't. Also the commentary was quite eye opening in places, the commentators seemed to revel in the fact Hulk was pretty much mauling the whole of Asgard.
But I need to make my point of I will be writing an essay at this rate. So what Hulk showed up for this film? It was more or less a Mindless Hulk due to separation. Whether Banner is removed from the Hulk via science, or magic, the result is the same. You cannot physically separate Banner away from the Hulk because they are pivotal parts of each other. So when you do separate, Banner starts dying, and eventually so does Hulk. So we have a Hulk free from all restraint and free from morals or any kind of restrictions that Banner offers. So essentially they have a Hulk that is theoretically untouchable in strenght as there is nothing to rein in his anger. Even slightly.
So Loki attacks after a week of battle, using a remote control Hulk. He pretty much crushes Volstagg, Fandrall, and Hogun. Fair enough, they're tough yes, but really I would expect Hulk in that kind of mood to just plow through them. Though when you listen to the commentary, they are utterly relishing the fact that Hulk has just squashed them. Which actually took me by surprise really. I didn't expect them to enjoy it THAT much if you see what I mean. Sure it was a great bit of animation the way the Hulk mulched Fandrall through the beam and things, but, wow they really enjoyed it. But realistically Hulk would be too much for the Warriors 3 to handle, I would think anyway.
As far as Baldur Vs Hulk goes... I don't mind saying it really irritated me no end that the commentary was like "oh he actually beats the Hulk here" when clearly Baldur looked like he had been through a cuisinart! What was the point? Seriously how childish is that? I just really think rather than laughing at Baldur getting the crap kicked out of him, it would have been better if they discussed how Baldur measures up to the Hulk rather than giggling like schoolboys at how Hulk was laying the smack down.
Then the actual fight with Thor that Hulk had was pure action but a one-sided beat down. I can't help think that the way they portrayed Thor was a lot OOC. Ok the initial exchange, I can understand Hulk clobbering Thor, that makes sense. Thor was trying to get some sense out of the Hulk, he didn't know that Banner wasn't in there, and Loki was pulling the strings. Though Loki speaks to Thor thru the Hulk. Then Loki proceeds to rain down, punch after punch, after punch on Thor. Which IMO is REALLY farfetched. As if Thor would just lie there and take a pummeling like that? It was totally OOC for Thor. Realising that Loki was somehow controlling the Hulk, IMO the Thor I have seen in the comics all these years would have fought back, HARD. But even when he did, Thor hit the Hulk in the face and head with Mjolnir several times and it barely did nothing to the Hulk! I mean, I'm sorry, Hulk fan or not, even I know that Hulk can't take several unanswered shots to the head one after the other with Mjolnir like he did and just carry on as normal. Mindless or not. Bearing in mind, Loki being there would have limited the Hulk's anger somewhat as Loki was controlling him. The retaliation by Thor SHOULD have been more effective than it was.
Also when Hulk pounced Thor through that demolished tower and then tried to pick up Mjolnir, Thor was down for several seconds there before he called Mjolnir back. Now I mean, had Loki been smart, he would have finished off Thor there and then. Because in that initial exchange Thor barely did anything to the Hulk except tickle him slightly. Would the Loki of old really waste time with Mjolnir when he saw he had his chance to kill Thor? I think not. So again for me, there is another glaring hole in the established character of Loki.
So then Thor gets up and strikes the Hulk with his lightning, THEN tosses Mjolnir at him. So there is Hulk on his hands and knees, after taking some punishment like that, despite the fact he is at this point in the film mindless, Hulk should have been down after that for a few seconds. That was a HELL of a lot of power to just shrug off and come back from. Yet he didn't go down, and Thor, instead of pressing the attack and subduing the Hulk there and then when he has the chance, who Thor knows from much experience IS a huge threat to Asgard, instead, Thor kindly asks him "Will thou yield Loki?" All he needed was a please in there and quite possibly Hulk may have given in... sorry, but that was ridiculous! That was utter ridiculousness. Thor should have known that asking Loki to yield when he controls the Hulk, was a waste of time. Is it just me or is that a HUGE hole in the plot of the film there?
Its after this point that Thor now truly faces the mindless Hulk with his limitless strength and Thor gets treated like a punchbag. Now, I believe, that Hulk only gets enough strength to fight his peers (good guys and scumbags) and toss them around like ragdolls... Not enough to beat them to death. Which if you consider the way the Hulk's powers work, he could very easily do. I always think that Hulk doesn't have enough strength to beat somebody to death because he doesn't want to. Bruce is essentially a good guy and that is reflected even through the Hulk. Neither wants to be a killer. Hence, there is a mental rather than physical limit to the Hulk's strength. I believe that is as good an explanation as any as to how one moment he can pull landmasses together, and another moment he is only marginally stronger than Hercules. So for me that makes good sense. Obviously a mindless Hulk is under no such limit as that. He WOULD possess the strength to beat somebody to death, immaterial of who it was IMO. Wheras other incarnations would not.
Its not so much that the Hulk very nearly killed Thor that rattles me because IMO a mindless Hulk would possess the strength to do it, what upsets me are two things;
1) Thor barely offered any resistance following Hulk getting up from his hands and knees, even after realising that it wasn't the Hulk of old he was up against.
2) Thor had to be saved by Amora.
I mean I can tell that the Hulk was obviously hurting him bad, its just that Thor basically gave him the chance to do it. Asgard was under huge threat and Thor will fight like a lion to protect Asgard, yet, he didn't here.
And there's another great hole in the plot after Hulk left Thor laying. Hela came to try and claim him, hang on, wouldn't it be Valhalla that Thor would go on his death? As he was a warrior who died in battle? Have I fount a flaw Thor fans?
Its just very you know, distubring the way Thor got beat on. The way I see it, Thor should be able to land the more blows, given the Hulk is larger than he is, you can't really miss, plus Thor's skills in battle. But the power behind the blows goes to the Hulk. That is how I see a typical Thor vs Hulk fight... which is probably fair, this fight was a case of, Hulk landed the most blows, and the most powerful ones. One sided beat down. Unfair.
Then there is the rematch in Hel. Here, Thor gets a much better showing I felt against the Hulk compared to the last one that is, but even then, it was a poor showing overall. Thor used some lightning and even I think broke the Hulk's arm with one of his strikes. Now, I know Hulk can heal from broken bones, but, healing from a broken arm is going to take even the Hulk a few minutes. Hulk seemed to recover from his arm virtually instantly. Which is a gross exaggeration of his healing, especially when compared to how easily Deadpool tranqd the Hulk in the vs Wolverine film. Then after more lightning Hulk tackles Thor into a Hela statue and again lands punch after punch after punch leaving Thor down on the ground again. Loki then intervenes, using his magic, Thor joins in with his powers, and Hulk breaks free. In the commentary they say it made Hulk angry enough to break free. Bull manure!
I would say, Hulk could overcome either Thor or Loki's power individually, but together, Sorry but I don't rate his chances very high, even in Mindless Hulk incarnation. Its just really far fetched to think that he could. He might be able to, under extreme conditions eg Rick will die if he doesn't or something... but, in a general fight like that, no chance.
So there it is, I don't know what else to add except that they were very inconsistent with their portrayal of the Hulk. And they were also very wrong in how they portrayed Thor. Even after a week of fighting Thor should not have been at THAT low a level. I mean don't get me wrong it was enjoyable and I felt their portrayal of the Hulk despite inconsistencies was fairly accurate to what he has done in the source material of the comics, but, the way they portrayed Thor was hilariously bad. Still, its entertaining to Hulk fans at a base level, but to me, it didnt' strike any chords above mindless smashing action. Which is disapointing. I enjoyed it, but, not above anything more than pure comic violence.
I said earlier both characters were cheapened. I've discussed at length how Thor was cheapened, so how was Hulk cheapened? well... I'd look like a real tough guy too if I invaded an old people's home and started to thump around pensioners. By making Thor and the Asgardians a push over, they kinda made the Hulk look bad too IMO.
And Seeker... I have not forgot about your thread on the Battle Board... I will reply shortly to that will make a new thread for it. I've not been well lately, had a bad stomach. But wanted to get this done first.
Well those are my thoughts, I don't know if it surprises you guys that a Hulk fan thinks like that, but, its the gospel truth, every word of it.
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