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Subj: Re: Greetings Seeker! + Comments about Hulk & Thor's strengths.
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 at 10:49:40 am EST (Viewed 180 times)
Reply Subj: Greetings Spider-Hulk
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 at 08:53:57 pm EST (Viewed 192 times)
Quote:Taking into context that they were having to move the film along within a limited time frame things like that I kind of sadly just ignore if necessary to move it along. I do think the Wolverine one was done with more respect toward both characters and had a better fight. I think the commentary made that clear. Overall though, I think Deadpool stole the show on that one. One thing I due wonder is the writers said they went back and added the Wolverine origin. Since they was supposed to be a good deal about the Hulk I wish they had not turned it into a Wolverine origin story or even a Hulk origin since both are so well-known. I would have liked some more detail about the Hulk such as how he even got in Canada. After all, how many times in popular media have the basic origins of both these characters been told?
Yeah there is something else that bothered me about the Hulk vs Wolverine film, it was more like Wolverine vs Hulk than the other way about. Wolverine was the star of the show and Hulk was more like an additional supporting character, though... It didnt' really bother me that much.
Quote:HULK vs THOR
That is what pours salt into the wound. One could excuse at face value that the writers tried to show both respectfully, but simple fouled the ball, but once you listen to the commentary they come off as deliberate making Thor and all of Asgard look all as incompetent. As they point out of the three characters Thor is the least well-known. So how does it make sense from a marketing stand point to have him do poorly? I would think overall this would only create less interest in the character. That and squeezing his entire cast in there with no background at all comes across as poorly as well.
I agree with that sentiment. They could have elaborated more on Thor and Asgard. ESPECIALLY as they took such care to do so with the Hulk vs Wolverine episode! Wolverine had a LOT more exposure than Thor did.
Quote:Thing is Thor has fought that version of the Hulk and done at least decently against it which doesn't make since if you know that story and then watch the film.
Hulk #300. Yes Thor takes on the Mindless Hulk, its a shame really that they didn't make more out of that than they did. I actually got my Hulk 300 out of the filing cabinet and am looking at it now. Splash page where Hulk and Thor charge one another it seems. Lightning going everywhere... then there is all that stuff with Dr Strange... then its back to the fight, Hulk tries to crush Thor with a car, which Thor promptly hammers to bits. He hits Hulk accross the chest then with Mjolnir, Hulk is unphased. Hulk then punches out at Thor, and I think given the art, he misses... Thor then smacks Hulk away, Hulk gets up picks up his adamantium statue, and Thor realises if Hulk starts hitting him with that he could die... he tosses mjolnir at it and it vibrates loudly Hulk drops it... Strange then shows up and Banishes Hulk. That's all there was to the fight. Thor did reasonably well in that issue. Must give him credit where its due!
Quote:Volstagg, Fandral, and Hogun are all great warriors, but considering the way Thor has torn through Asgard's mooks enough I would expect nearly any version of the hul to do that, but again the commentary comes across as bad.
I thought Hulk was a bit too much for them, but I just wanted to check to make sure.
Quote:Balder would loose as well. He would do better than anyone else save one of the big hitters because he is tougher and better than most Asgardians, but sill the way the commentary came across is who you described it: childish.
Very childish in fact! I thought Baldur was above the average Asgardian but how far I was not certain. Baldur was revealed in recent Thor issues to be Thor's half brother. So he might get some additional wham to his zam soon!
Quote:Could Hulk have just taken head shots like that? I don't know. I'll leave that to you. Would Thor have just let anyone pound him like that. No, but the writers had it done anyway.
He could take head shots like it, but not a succession of them like that one after the other. Even in Mindless Incarnation a series of head shots like that would have stunned him for a LOT longer than it did in the film. A whack from Mjolnir comes tight, even if you are Hulk.
Quote:As to Loki, I think his and rage as the Enchantress said was feeding the Hulk some. Loki was not trying to restrain it as much as Banner does, but Thor who battles monsters on an almost daily basis should have done better.
Yes, ESPECIALLY as soon as Thor realised that the Hulk was being manipulated.
Quote:Loki has always had a somewhat obessions with Mjolnir so it is possible he would interrupt a fight with Thor if he thought Thor was down for good. And considering how long Thor took to get up and how Thor just let Loki pound on him I think that as somewhat justified.
I suppose so in terms of the movie logic but, in the context of the characters I would think even Loki would have more sense than to just ignore Thor.
Quote:To tell the truth, for Thor's big attack it was somewhat disappointing. That attack was probable medium at best. Yet, through the entire film that was the best Thor offered. Thor asking Loki to yield might be something he had done, but ...
Thor's attack was some serious magic combined with a hurled Mjolnir Hulk should have been down for a few moments after that.
Quote:Pretty much every writer has portrayed the Hulk's physical strength topping out a little above Thor even in his mindless forms his strength had never gotten a huge mount above Thor. So for Thor to be dominateated so when he has fought beings stronger than him and done better does not make sense.
Spider-Man has fought opponents vastly stronger than himself too. Titania, Rhino, even Firelord. And won! All that shows is what we all know to be fact, Thor is an excellent fighter.
As far as Hulk's strength goes, I know this is probably not a popular train of thought here on Thor's home turf. But I think Hulk IS stronger than Thor and other of his peers but only when circumstances call for it really. When it comes to strength Hulk has always been the "Go to" guy. I mean, just recently at the end of WWH, Hulk got so angry at Miek's betrayal and Rick's stabbing that he stomped his foot and caused an Earthquake to go all the way up the East Coast of the USA! In Planet Hulk, he swam down through magma grabbed a tectonic plate in each hand, and pulled them back together. A land mass in each hand! Those are two of his most recent feats of strength. Like I said in my original post, I think that Hulk mentally limits himself when he fights strength peers to avoid seriously hurting them or even killing them. Bruce is a good man and that is reflected thru the Hulk. Which is why you don't see Hulk maiming other peers be they villain or hero.
I know that there is this idea that just because Thor hasn't done the strength feats Hulk has doesn't mean he can't do them. Well I always think of Hulk 440. Thor with his powers returned to full and with Warrior madness, takes on the Hulk in a vicious battle and Hulk pins him down with one arm (Hulk lets go when he hears the nuke coming down). Thor 385 is another instance, Hulk overpowered Thor in their scuffle there enough to toss Thor thru a wall into a shopping mall and then proceeded to land SIX unanswered shots on Thor. Thor though, awesome credit to him was STILL conscious after all that! Kudos to Thor. Seriously!
So that is where my ideas of Hulk being physically stronger than Thor comes from. But you know what? Those examples don't mean a great deal. Because... and the reason being, when it comes to asking me "Spider-Hulk, who is more powerful, Hulk or Thor?" I answer
"Spider-Hulk who is a better fighter, Hulk or Thor?" I have to answer
I don't want the Thor faithful to admit, Okay Hulk might be stronger, Thor has done that himself already! LOL sorry! Im just playing with you (but he has!), but to my mind, Thor IS more powerful than Hulk is overall. As Run DMC would say, "Its like that, and that's the way it is."
Quote:Seeing how this was the first fight and in stories like this both comics, book, and film the good guy looses the first fight that was to be expected even if it was poorly done. It is how he faired poorly as well in the second one that makes the film truly unwatchable for me.
Well they wanted Banner to be the hero in the end. So it was all plot driven. And full of holes too. It was grimacing for me, and I am a Hulk fan mainly, and a Thor fan secondarily.
Quote:IJust like Hulk, Thor has his own form of the heroic resolve where he unleashes divine fury one whomever he if fighting. Fighting mortal Thor holds back, but as Thor: Ages of Thunder showed Thor was once a much more brutal warrior and when Asgard is truly endager Thor unleashes that fury and can bring down things even bigger then him. Yet, he lost badly and was portrayed as nothing more than a guy who threw around some lighting.
I have Thor Ages of Thunder, that's a GOOD one shot! I really enjoyed it. I actually think the fight would have been far more entertaining if Thor cut loose with his WM Like in Hulk 440. Neither side held back there they clobbered each other with everything they had! That is what they should have done in the film IMO.
Quote:Technically, Thor should have gone to Valhalla, but Hel has always had a claim over nearly anyone who has died and has always tried to break the rules as far as Thor is concerned. Of course, considering Loeb is writting Ultimate Hel as the ruler of Valhalla and the work Yost put into this film I don't think he bothered to check that fact.
I would agree, there was definately a distinct lack of research that went into this, and for me that made it all the more painful.
Quote:I was expecting the last fight to be much more epic. I was expecting lighting, crumbling buildings, the works. If you have ever watched Superman/Doomsday or JLU on Cartoon Network and seen some of those fights I found those to be much better. And considering the time limits of those episodes the stories to be better as well.
I will give DC's Animation department their dues. They do some excellent fight sequences between their super people! My god! Punches to the face, even the odd trickles of blood running out of their mouths and stuff. Really Marvel could learn a lot from DC animated.
Quote:Hulk's healing various from taking minutes to a few second. But what I didn't get is why Thor didn't try any of his more powerful attacks or again why he just let Hulk pound on him again. I was expecting Thor to really pull out all the stops, but the writers were once again laughing through the whole thing.
Well I was HOPING Thor would cut loose! I really was.
With Hulk his healing varies based on the injury, cuts and gashes heal virtually instantly. Wheras organs and bones are more complicated and can run into the mintues. When Hulk is angry, he heals MUCH faster. But a broken arm would take a few minutes even when enraged.
Quote:Loki's sorcery makes him a near equal to Thor, but the best he can do is a brief prison and Thor's best idea is the same attack he tried a few minutes ago? Why did he think it would be any different? Could Hulk have taking them both at once? If you are of the school of thought that Hulk truly has unlimited strength and stamina maybe after a prolonged battle. After this short thing no. If you are of the school of thought that Hulk, while very powerful with vast reserves, still has limited strength and stamina then I don't think he should have beaten them.
Well Hulk's strength is IMV proved to be limitless and there are statements in the comic that confirm that. However, his stamina is not limtless and has never been shown to be limtiless. He DOES get tired and the more punishment he takes the more of a toll it puts on him, and combine that with how Hulk exerts himself, he is going to to fail.
So Hulk is going to fall eventually, against either Loki or Thor, Hulk's in with a shot, but against both of them. No.
Quote:I think what makes it worse is it is so radically different from the way they portrayed the Wolverine/Hulk fight. In it they state they deliberatly made it equal to please the fans. I don't see how they expected it to please Thor fans. It looks pretty, but that is about it.
I don't mind Wolverine being able to fight Hulk. I think he's probably the only ordinary level being who could take on the Hulk. I am more a Hulk fan than a Thor fan, and I was not pleased by it at all.
Quote:I'll check it out, but I may not be able to get to it tonight. I have work I have to do.
Haven't wrote it yet. I failed in my Fire Service application, they turned me down which I am really really upset over as I really wanted the job and Im as fit as a flea, god I can outrun men half my size... So tonight, all that awaits me is bottles of mead, one after the other after the other, until I am as drunk as 40 victorious Asgardians!!!
Quote:Did I expect Thor to win in this dvd? No
Before I watched it, I actually expected they would fight to a sort of inconclusive stalemate! Which would be fine with me.
Quote:Did I like this dvd? no
Did they portray Thor well? I don't see how anyone with any basic knowledge of the characters and their history can say they did.
I agree on both counts. I did like the DVD but only a basic comic violence level.
Quote:Sif (by the writer's own admission) did the best yet if she had not talked, but had taken Hulk's head off it might have ended the film.
She did do well. Once through his shoulder then into his back then she cut his leg and he fell in a heap.
Quote:They kept talking about how powerful these gods were supposed to be, but how was anybody not familiar with Thor supposed to really know that? The Warriors Three came off as worse than Wolverine. And take away his healing factor and he is barely more than human.
I agree, Wolverine is only able to fight the Hulk due to his adamantium bones and healing factor. But I agree with you. Wolverine did better than the Warriors 3 did combined.
Was a very crazy film with not much sense in it.
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