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Post By
djcc

In Reply To
Khamsin

Subj: Re: Ares = Thor --how can anyone take Marvel or Marvel's characters and storylines credibly when
Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 at 11:42:06 pm EDT (Viewed 5 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Ares = Thor --how can anyone take Marvel or Marvel's characters and storylines credibly when
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 at 10:45:01 pm EDT (Viewed 17 times)

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you have writers with clear biases and skewed viewpoints given freedom to portray MU characters in any way their biases might point?

Bendis is actually being less-than-honest about this as I believe he actually thinks Ares is greater than Thor --most will recall some threads from a couple of years ago when he expressed that opinion, including confirming that we would see Ares defeat Thor at some time

it is beginning to appear that time is coming

can anyone tell me why I shouldn't believe MU EDit has it out for Thor? how many more of these sorts of things and portrayals are "in the works" --how many more writers with such viewpoints will be working on Thor stories

does Bendis view lend credence to the opinions of Thor fans who have felt and expressed that Seige contained bad showigns for Thor and for Asgardians?

why aren't there a bunch of Pro-Thor authors writing stories showing Thor kicking @$$ at his full potential, showings equalling in number and extreme as those we've been subjected to with Thor on the receiving end?

I think that we all need to grow up here. The leadership at marvel has made the decision that Thor is a second-tier character. It's not a vast anti-Thor conspiracy or a calculated plot hatched by some comic book cabal to upset and frustrate Thor fans. It is an editorial decision made by the people who manage these intellectual properties. And if the editors at Marvel have decided that Ares, the Hulk or Aunt Mae is superior to Thor then that's just the way it is. And if they decide to revise continuity and re-imagine old Avengers adventures (like they have recently) to show the Hulk capable of defeating Thor plus all the original Avengers or show Ultimate Thor as second tier as well, what can we do about it?

We can deal with Thor as he is now in 2009 or not. Referencing the "original intent" of Stan and Jack is pointless. Pointing out Thor feats of power and strength is useless. Complaining about inconsistency in writing or why Thor is often portrayed as a no-fighting blockhead is also useless. No amount of complaining will help the matter. Either buy the books and accept them for what they are or stop buying/reading and discover another pastime or another favorite character.

I like Thor's new look but don't always like his portrayals--oh well. This is analogous to being a Montreal Canadiens fan and bemoaning that this team is not like the good old days with Lafleur and Dryden and Shutt and Robinson. And asking why this player isn't more physical or this other player seems afraid to shoot or this goalie couldn't stop a beach ball, etc. This is not 1976-79 and this year's squad just is not that good. So we can either watch the games or watch something else.

Understand that this little missive is not a personal attack, it's just an assessment of reality.


you have your ways and others have theirs and to assess raising concerns as not being grown up is inaccurate and inappropriate --if you follow that way of thinking, that perspective, then you wouldn't have even posted as you did -- you would have followed your same advice the same way it is intended

many Thor fans have made up their minds and are not happy about what's happening, and they will express their opinions an concerns --and that's just the way it is --that is each fan's persons decision, particularly since fans are spending their time and money on those intellectual properties --fans are investing their own intellectual and resource-properties on these intellectual properties and that is just the way that is

the problems with the "oh well, I'm a grown up, whatever" attitude are that such an attitude lacks personal and individual reflection and feedback except perhaps in the form of the decision to purchase or not but as consumers we have the right and the obligation to provide more feedback than that --thank goodness we are not sheep just wandering around for the next green pasture -- like-it-or-not when anyone goes public with anything the critique and feedback, bad, good or indifferent is all part of the package -- and like it or not those who manage intellectual property have the obligation to honor the consumers even if they disagree with them --this doesn't mean they do whatever the consumer asks, but it does mean they encourage, accept, welcome, respect and respond respectfully in some manner and with some valuable feedback and information that demonstrates their respect and care for their consumers

we as consumers are sold products that are marketed, promoted and presented to us in a certain way, under a certain specification with an agreement exchange as the objective -- we were sold Thor as he was, that was pitched, packaged and paid for for years --so when the product changes there is a breach of that agreement which requires something to be accounted for by those who manage and sell their properties

yes many of us have invested quite a lot of time and money and interest in Thor for many years, and Thor was pitched and sold within the parameters of that business contract -- to make changes without accounting for them is what is not "grown up" as it discards, discounts, deceives and disrespects the agreement and those on the other end of that agreement, the consumer to whom this was all pitched and sold to.

yes any producer, creator, etc has a right to switch gears in any way they please at any time, but to do so without accounting for and communicating repsectfully and informationally with those to whom that producer is pitching and selling their creation/service etc, i.e. to those who the producer absolutely depends on for his/her own livelihood is what is not grown up behavior or attitude here -- and to make such change without welcoming or expecting and respectfully accounting and addressing consumer concern is not only "not grown up" it is irrational and unrealistic

and to support this or advise on behalf of such conduct is, nothing personal here, as irrational and unrealistic, and not grown up or even less grown up than the producer/manager etc who has made the unexplained, unadmitted, unaccounted for changes

and without the raising of consumer voices, those who manage/produce etc properties are less constrained and even freer to take any liberties and/or direction they wish free of their responsibility in the contract between producer and consumer to be accountable and respectful to the consumer and the agreement with them -- like-it-or-not, the most grown up view here is that producer and consumer are on flip sides of the same coin, that coin being the production and sale on one side with the consumption and purchase on the other -- and to see this any other wis to see it in partial and incomplete terms and view, and that sort of perspective could not be confused with a grown up one

I don't see the Canadiens then and now as a parallel unless management of Les Canadiens can perceive, create and produce pre-conceived characteristics and talents of the players as well as determine the actual outcome of each game and each season like comic book people do with the characters and the outcomes of their stories

I'd also wage that management of the Canadiens would keep Lafleur, Lemaire and Laperriere, and all the rest of those greats if they could keep them forever or if they could reproduce them over and over

and I'd also wager that management of Les Canadiens would write them as the champions pretty much as often as they'd like, never weakening them or changing their characteristics to intentionally skuttle the outcomes for years and/or generations, nor changing the original intent of having the Canadiens as the true champions of hockey

nor would the management of les Canadiens produce alternate versions of their beloved team as underachievers, losers and the object of embarrassing showings and outcomes

and I'd wager that if the management of Les Canadiens did shift gears and re-dux the team, embarrass alternate versions, and have the Maple Leafs stomp them with their own hockey sticks, Canadiens FANS would rise up and express their concerns -- if management ignored and disrespected those voices and concerns, what do you think Canadienes fans would do?

would you, Khamsin become a Maple Leafs fan? a Rangers fan? revive the Quebec Nordiques and become their fan? and what if you did "jump ship" and the same happened with your newly adopted team...?


like-it-or-not consumers, by their interest and their purchase are half-owners of the products they consume, ultimately being full owners of the final products --so that not only entitles response, input and perspective from the consumer, it pretty much darn near requires it, and that is the real "grown up" in this and any other contractual arrangement, agreement and consummation

the powered-up, re-set Thor was selling very well, top-15 or better --so let me ask you then, what could it possibly mean, and why would anyone possibly change that proven success's formula ? what would the decision and committment to making such a change mean when doen in the face of and the reality of a very successful powerful Thor? why would anyone tinker or change such a successful formula?

so Khamsin, when will we see you on youtube wearing a Maple Leafs Jersey ? or maybe it would be a USA Jersey? or a Rangers jersey?

and if you did that wouldn't that also be making a statment and raising your voice and concern? so is that the only acceptable method to raise voice and concern? and should we all be jumping ship and switiching loyalites all the time?

is that really grown up..?






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