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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,976
In Reply To
Would be Watcher

Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Now we're getting a bit metaphysical...
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 at 12:14:05 am EST (Viewed 89 times)
Reply Subj: Maybe...
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 at 01:03:49 pm EST (Viewed 107 times)

Previous Post

    Odin wanted Thor to learn enough humility to learn to care about those weaker then him and know his consequences have actions. Before being banished Thor would seek out any fight he could regardless of what would occur afterwords. His actions nearly started a war which could have killed who knows how many people. Thor was so invincible and had become so self-centered that he acted with little regard toward others. On one hand he knew what was noble and tried to live up to it, but by failing to think through on his actions he was causing problems throughout the nine realms.

    The current Thor still boasts a lot, but he usually only engages in battles that come to him or are necessary. He no longer seeks out combat just to prove how great he is. He also tends to be more respectful of the lives of others whereas before he probable would have cared a lot less about whether or not his enemies lived. So Thor did learn humility, but not to the degree modern culture thinks one should be humble. Modesty is not an Asgardian virtue.

...but to me, the way you say it, it look more like Odin wanted to make him more responsible rather than more humble. From my POV, by living among "mortals", he was forced to stop looking down to an extent and see for himself the value of what he inherently considered inferior to him. Rather than see worthless ants, he would slowly see many virtues that he might have thought only present among his kind or, even worse, himself alone. Having a taste of what it was to be "mortal" was a good way to give him a new perspective. After all, presenting yourself to all others as a God, inherently asking the respect you think you are due because you are a God, can be VERY arrogant. Doubly so in a universe like Marvel where god doesn't mean God and where many "mortal" could well teach you humility.

I think you are right to a large degree. Odin wanted Thor to be more responsible so he had to learn a degree of humility for the reasons you specified. Thor had to learn to view things from the perspective of others since he was meant to be ruler one day. It is humility, but not the same extent I think some modern audiences expect. Thor and Odin have some respect for mortals. The latter still thinks gods are better than them and Thor at least isn't one to quit boasting about what he can do.

I think key part that is often lost is outside of power and behavior gods still hold a vital role in the MU beyond another group of superpowered beings. Some fans thinks gods are nothing but arrogant fools for demanding worship and acting all big when you have mortals that can match them in power and the presence of the abstracts. I would argue a differenlty.

For most mortals the gods are the highest level of power they are likely to meet in the universe that has relevance to them. The abstracts care even less for mortals than gods. There are innumerable demons and what not at the edge of reality ready to devour every mortal. The gods form the structure of the metaphysical for mortals. They were the ones who guided and depending on the culture (mostly aliens) still guide and provide a basic framework of mortal society. They provide an afterlife for mortals souls. Many times when mortals might need some sort of superpowered intervention or someone looking out for them the gods are about all there is. Given also the powers and immortatility of gods to declare mortals their equals would be going a bit far. Especially given the way most mortals view other lifeforms. Power wise, the major gods at least SHOULD be above even most superpowered mortals if the gods were not always watered down. So I think the gods claiming respect should not be surprising or unexpected. One can wonder if it is arrogant of mortals to demand immortal beings to treat them as equals. Would we do the same?

I guess in the end what I'm saying is I think both you and I agree Thor has learned some humility. We just disagree on whether or not he needs to learn more. I have no problem for reasons discussed with his boasting. Compared to most gods he is humble, it is not a trait of his society, he can back up what he says, he usually doesn't always throw it in everybody's face since he does not demand worship, and as Fifthchild pointed out due to his background it is too be expected. I don't really see it as needing more humility. Unless I'm misreading what you are saying you seem to. Nothing wrong with that.

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