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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To
Would be Watcher

Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: I got cut off, and accidentally sent my reply before I finished...anyway....
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 05:34:45 pm EST (Viewed 108 times)
Reply Subj: Re: I got cut off, and accidentally sent my reply before I finished...anyway....
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 01:32:05 pm EST (Viewed 118 times)

As a big Surfer fan I always sort of debate what is best for the character. He has always been one of the most versatile and powerful guys around. The physical aspect just caught up later. Are many of his stories melodrama. To a point, I guess. But I always found that to be somewhat interesting. It is a bit cliche, shall I say, the lonely god with the dilemma of when to use it sort of thing, but I think it works in alot of ways. Surfer for his most part is a god, created by a force of nature to find worlds to feed on so it makes sense he is incredibly powerful. Is he to much, maybe. There are not to many beings that can fight him head on but I think that is true for any of the big guns in either Marvel or DC.

I do think as a character he seems to work best as an antagonist. One with the right intentions, like he was until recently when he was forced to leave Galactus through some really dumb plot element by Fraction. At least I think so. And he is definatly more set up to not be dealing with bank robbers or anything like that. The things he should deal with really should be big in scale. I would say the true is same for Thor honestly. Although I think Surfer is a much different character. What makes him interesting, at least to me, is very different.


      I don't think anyone is disputing that comicbook characters evolve. But the problem with a few fans have with regards to Thor, he was originally intended to be stronger than the strongest mortal. And like what you already agreed to, Silver Surfer was, originally, not as powerful as Thor. Things are different now, no arguments there. But, why amp up Silver Surfer, but keep Thor's powers in check. I am sure you have read sometime in the battle boards how Thor, Odin and the Asgardians were beasts during the Silver-Age...right? Things are very different now, they are noticeably less awesome. Back then, it would be unthinkable to have an Asgardian be killed and be subject to a macabre autopsy (even if it's by Dr. Doom).

    I see your point and understand it well. I'll even say that surfer has, IMO, long gotten out of hand power-wise. I personally see no point to him since 99% of his stories are false drama when you think about all he supposedly can do. That being said, I think the initial idea has grown in the right direction. Thor as a literal GOD was a sure failure, and unless he was set in a bubble universe, what happened next was inevitable. The fans and writers wanted to see Thor walk along Hulk and Ironman not pray to him for the villain to drown. 
    For all Stan-Lee said, he also said the Marvel universe was a place of struggle and imperfections as oppose to the distinguished competitor... and the fans have always approved of that mentality. That there never was a clear "most powerful" was something many always liked about Marvel and used to bash DC for... at least it's what they said in public...

      Superman is the most powerful among the DC heroes, correct? How would you feel (and please be honest with yourself) if all of a sudden Mon-El or Captain Marvel are suddenly far more powerful than the last son of Krypton?
    He generally is the most powerful. However, he isn't the best at everything like he used to be and I think it's a good thing. Before Flash and him were rival for their speed, now the rivalry is clearly dead. It doesn't make Superman look bad for it and it makes Flash relevant. On top of it, DC always had a clear trinity. At Marvel not so much and their fans use to say they liked Marvel better for it while bashing DC some more.

      Let's take a trip down memory lane....back in the late 80s and early 90s, Daxamites were officially a notch more powerful (overall) than Kryptonians...that's not subject to discussion, it was official, even repeated several times in the loose-leaf Who's Who (which i had a complete set of) magazine...and referenced in various major story arcs....but what's great with DC's treatment of Superman, they always come up with a way to make him look great. Back when Daxamites invaded earth, Superman fought them (supposedly they were more powerful) and held his own for a bit, until they died with lead poisoning. 
    Yes, at some point Daxamite used to be more powerful. I have the books and the Who's Who all right. I always thought the idea was bad and as a fan I truly disliked it. However, the comparison with Thor is atrocious. To have a tiny idea of how it would taste, Marvel would have to suddenly introduce a Race called, say, Asgardors, who would all be said to be class 31 on average with their greatest champion called Thar the god of "just a bit more than Thor thunder" with class 101 strength and lightnings etc. Now, THAT, I would sympathize with. But as he is Thor is better at some stuff and not at others relative to others and more importantly, he is unique. I'll be soooooo glad the day Superman is a unique character for more than his virtues and name.

      Then, when eclipso eclipsed Superman, no one could stop him, not Lobo (punched him repeatedly in super-speed until Lobo passed out), not Captain Marvel (Billy looked roughed up after their encounter)...Superman was awesome. Then, when Mon-el, supposed to be more powerful than Superman (said so several times in that very crossover event), but when Lar-Gand was eclipsed (which suppose to make the host much more powerful...check out Batman vs eclipsed joker) Superman fought him one-on-one and even managed to knock him out. So, in DC, even if they somehow make other characters more powerful than Superman, he always come out looking great...and his victories are explained due to his indominable will and courage. Great, fine and dandy for Superman.

    True, Superman always delivers. That's why many says he is DC poster boy. That being said, I don't always like it because if it sometimes make him great it also sometimes make him  not so great. I like some coherence in my stories and saying others are stronger only to be proven wrong with "willpower" isn't my cup of tea. I need more than that. If DC intend him to be weaker without making him play the part I see no point in wanting him weaker to begin with. Just be coherent. But yeah, the idealistic kid inside me vastly prefers Superman being the paragon of all super-heroes. It's who he is on so many level. He's an ideal. That doesn't mean better on everything or not the best at anything tho.  

      With Thor over at Marvel, it's a ...with Thor over at Marvel, it's worlds apart with Superman and DC... over at DC, Superman fights more powerful hero opponents, he wins anyway because of his cunning, courage, willpower. With Thor, they make the Hulk stronger, and supposedly that's the reason thor cannot defeat the giant. They make Silver Surfer far more powerful than what he was originally, and he makes short work of Beta Ray Bill (supposedly Thor's equal). Magneto used to run away from Thor, now he consider himself above the Asgardian (Magneto was defeated before with a wooden, he can basically shut down a person's body by manipulating the iron contents of the person)...wah? Characters are getting better left and righ over at Marvel...but with, let's de-power him because "he is too powerful"....hogwash! Thor is "too powerful" so now, his opponent is Storm. i wouldn't be surprised if Storm manage to get a win over the "god" of thunder.

    I think part of the problem is many fans are filtering a tad too much and remind thing the way they want.  Sure Thor has ugly defeats, but he doesn't only have that. Other characters also evolved because they had too. Magneto being easily defeated by a wooden club today would be puerile. There are so many ways for someone manipulating the EM to go around a wooden stick. As for Thor facing Storm, I agree it's a dubious match-up, however, Thor isn't alone in that boat since Hulk face Emma Frost. 
    Thor doesn't need to be more powerful, he need to be written differently. Even if you add dozens more powers to Thor, they won't matter if they aren't used. Writers should decide what they are willing to use, stick to it and use it. The rest should be left in the trash can. Same for every other character.

Look Raist bunnies...
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