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Post By
Fifthchild

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,474
In Reply To
Jonathanos

Member Since: Mon Feb 15, 2010
Posts: 2,301
Subj: Re: Not really.
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 10:13:55 pm EST (Viewed 110 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Not really.
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 04:55:50 pm EST (Viewed 136 times)




    Quote:

      Quote:
      Stan was recounting how he wanted to top his strongest creation, so he created a character based on a "god", supposedly stronger than the strongest mortal (hulk). Reed was not mentioned, at all.



    Quote:
    "But what was left to invent? Who could be stronger than The Hulk? Who could be smarter than Mr. Fantastic? We already had a kid who could fly, one who could walk on walls and ceilings, and a female who could fade away whenever danger threatened--or whenever the artist ran out of ink. As you can see, we were hooked on superlatives at that time, always trying to come up with characters who were bigger, better, stronger. However, we had painted ourselves into a corner. The only one who could top the heroes we already had would be Super-God..." -- Origins of Marvel Comics, 1974



    Quote:
    The 2002 version:



    Quote:
    "I thought it would be fun to invent someone as powerful as, or perhaps even more powerful than, the Incredible Hulk. But how do you make someone stronger than the strongest human? It finally came to me; don't make him a human--make him a god." -- Excelsior! The Amazing Life of Stan Lee, 2002



    Quote:
    The first sentence is usually omitted when this is quoted.



    Quote:
    Whatever Stan Lee intended when he was coming up with the idea for Thor, all that matters is what made it to the comics. The argument for Thor being stronger than the Hulk at any point rests on one issue-- Avengers #3. But that is contradicted soon after.


And I'm pretty sure that the scene with Mjolnir is supposed to reference its unwieldability rather than Thors strength. The expanded scene from JIM112 also makes it look more like this IMO.


    Quote:
    Unless I'm mistaken, Avengers #3 is also prior to the Hulk's dynamic strength being established. I believe the first reference to the Hulk getting stronger was a few months later in FF #25.


Thats interesting. Ive been wondering for a while when the first time that might have happened. Its interesting reading the first Vol of Esssential Hulk and seeing the character gradually evolve towards the familiarish Savage Hulk incarnation.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      When did Stan "quickly" closed the window for Thor? Thor 319? Again, the Hulk had to hostage a girl just to get Thor to throw away the hammer. That's pretty much established. You mean how Hulk "pummeled" Thor? yeah, after he got sucker punched. But the Hulk still failed to get the KO, and when thor's hammer returned, Thor, instead of using it against the Hulk, threw it again and challeneged the Hulk. I think that is pretty badass. It didn't really settle anything. If the Hulk has had a clear advantage over Thor, it's the more recent fights...but definitely not by Stan Lee.



    Quote:
    In Avengers #5, he wrote that only Mjolnir had the power to match a blow from the Hulk. That's 2 issues later and taken at face value it means the Hulk would have to be stronger than Thor. In JIM #112 which revisited their fight in Avengers #3, they were portrayed as so closely matched that Thor admitted he did not know who was stronger. Then there's the many times that Stan referred to the Hulk as the strongest being on Earth.



    Quote:
    You meant #385. And actually, Thor is shown throwing the hammer at the Hulk in the end, while claiming he won't use it. I write that off as an artistic mistake or Stan putting in dialogue that didn't match the scene. \:\)


385 is a bit of a hodgepodge issue. The Hulk is supposed to be Mindless but its pretty much just the Savage Hulk. Hulk acts very out of character by taking that woman hostage. Thor acts out of character by saying he will throw Mjolnir away and throws it straight at Hulk. Massive bruises suddenly appear on Thors face at the end of the fight etc. From scattered bits I've picked up over the years it seems the story was something that Erik Larsen had pitched to Jim Shooter but it got published after shooter had left with some art corrections and Stan Lee fitting in the dialogue Marvel style. I think its significant that Larsen pretty much rewrote the same story years later in the Hulk Annual 2001.





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