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Member Since: Fri Aug 21, 2015
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Member Since: Sun Jan 02, 2011
Posts: 3,786
Subj: That's just good writing...pity modern writers don't take heed...
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 at 07:34:14 am EST (Viewed 149 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Was Dan Jurgens the Last Writer that gave us Epic Battles?...
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 at 11:37:52 am EST (Viewed 191 times)

Hey Norvell,

    I thought it had become something of a trope in Jurgens' writing. He'd lose the first round, lick his wounds, then win the second round through sheer conviction.

Even assuming that was the case...that's just called writing a good comic battle and the main reason Jurgen's fights were EPIC in a way the recent crop of writers can't understand ( perhaps those writers never watched the Rocky movies? ).

By showing the hero in trouble you build up both the threat of the villain and enhance the hero's eventual victory over them.

The alternative is an easy squash: Like every Fem-Thor fight (lets throw Mangog into the Sun) or Thor vs. Black Winter (one hitter quitter).

    I was critical of this at the time, especially with how he beat the Destroyer, which really no amount of effort or conviction should allow. Either you have the goods to beat the Destroyer or you don't.

Did he 'beat' the Destroyer or just momentarily 'stun' the host long enough to use Battlefield Removal and take it to a remote planet?

Thor had already shown willingness to die battling the Destroyer and in an EPIC (Jurgen's) moment gets hit by its Disintegration.

That was just such a brilliant first arc.

    There are circumstances in some of these encounters, such as Scarlet Witch putting a hex on Mjolnir during the Enchanters rematch.

The Enchanters can control Mjolnir, Thor circumnavigated the problem by getting the aid of Scarlet Witch.

    Or Thor blasting Mangog in the mouth.

That Mangog moment is one of the most EPIC Thor moments of all time. Jurgen's answered the question of how to beat the unbeatable foe. It was such a great scene that Jason Aaron referenced it in the Mangog story he'd "always wanted to write".

    In retrospect, it's not that big of a deal. But it was definitely Jurgens' style to employ this 'comeback, Rocky-esque' mentality.

Hero in trouble (Builds threat and excitement) - Hero makes comeback over tough threat (Increases worth of the victory and reader joy).

Problem: Destroyer is invincible. Solution: Battlefield removal.
Problem: You can't beat the Dark Gods without Odin. Solution: Free the All-wise
Problem: Enchanters control Mjolnir. Solution: Get a Witch to block their sorcery.
Problem: Mangog's hide is too tough to do any real damage. Solution: Blast him on the inside.

Each time Thor is given a problem he RISES to the challenge and finds a solution.

Contrast that with any of the past 4+ writers and I'd be curious if we can even find a single fight that plays out with the Problem/Solution dynamic.

Peppered in between Jurgen's EPIC battles were the smaller fights: Sedna, Herc (friendly brawl), Replicus, Tokkots, Wrecking Crew etc. Where Thor won't necessarily be in that much trouble.

You address Omnipotence...tread carefully.
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