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Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
In Reply To

Member Since: Sun Jan 02, 2011
Posts: 3,786
Subj: On continuity
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 at 05:06:53 pm EST (Viewed 62 times)
Reply Subj: Marvel targets readers with surgical precision; like any corporation that size
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 at 06:22:45 am EST (Viewed 80 times)

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    Well he has the authority of a moderator on this forum. So if he wanted to cancel your voice, he could.

Sure, but I'm interacting with him as though he's a contributor to the discussion, not the content moderator.

    Quote: opposed to the communist media...are there any problems with that media?

Absolutely, but this black or white thinking, without nuance, is what creates the very situation you're complaining about.

The notion that it's full-steam capitalism / corporate control or totalitarian communism is the reasoning of an extremist.

It's also not beneficial when your ideology isn't dominating corporate interests, is it?

    Who banned whom from twitter again? Actually don't answer that - matter for another forum.

Well, we could discuss the fact that most public media platforms are grossly -- enormously -- skewed towards favouring the right-wing, but as you said, that's for a discussion I'm not allowed to have at this moment.

    Exactly which is why Marvel's sales are down (despite using every dirty trick in the book to make it appear otherwise) and a large number of their best writers have jumped ship.

Statically, the overwhelming majority of young people are progressive or liberal-leaning -- especially if they are interest in READING and the artist -- so it would be a wise business decision to skew to that audience. In addition, Marvel was largely founded on progressive concepts, such as anti-discrimination and protecting / promoting marginalized groups. What do you think the X-Men represent? It's baked into Marvel history.

The free market has pretty much spoken on which audience to cater to.

    It is if you have a basic understanding of writing and logic.

No, it's not an objective standard because some people don't value previous continuity as a standard. Some people may value certain 'past history' more than others, or take different cues from it. It is subjective.

    If Thor and Odin have been portrayed as behaving in a certain manner for 50 years and then all of a sudden they behave in the complete opposite manner...and we can point that that subjective or objective.

That's the problem, what you see and what another sees are different. Some people may see Odin wise and benevolent, others may see him as an authoritarian a**hole. There is room for both depictions.

    Marvel comics are NOT in it to make money. They haven't been for several years. Go woke...etc.

Without dissect the meaning of 'woke' (which broadly means giving minority opinions respect and value), there is no sane reason for Marvel existing other than to make a profit, and the notion that they are some liberal think tank is pure fantasy. They have experts who analyze data and the behaviours and expectations of the readership and target them with surgical precision. It's not rocket science. Have you ever started a company or attempted to? The first step is to identify your audience.

I would also argue that as a company, Marvel was far more progressive in the past than it is now (since its now just a corporate machine). You are seeing more overt displays of 'woke culture' in Marvel because that's the market they are catering to as a purely corporate decision.

Its true that some people don't value continuity, but I would still argue that it is an objective criterion that speaks to overall quality, as internal consistency in any body of work is critical.

For example, a fantasy writer who establishes a hard magic system that they then violate significantly without reason breaks immersion and is one of those 'objective' things that editors and agents will reject a prospective novelist over instantly.

The challenge with a shared universe is finding the balance between internal consistency and not becoming a slave to everything that has happened over 40 years of continuity, and I agree that is a very difficult line to cross.

That said, one of the coolest things about a shared universe is the interconnectedness, building of expectations, crossovers, etc...and it has been a lot of what has propelled the MCU to where it is. It is also how things worked at Marvel during the Jim Shooter era, and comics BOOMED at that time...crossovers were cool, and made sense.

Yet, going in as a writer into a significant continuity is TOUGH. Larry Niven had intended to write a Thieves World novel, for instance, but by the time he had time to write the novel, he refused to, because it had grown large enough that he felt it would require too much research to do it justice, and he didn't have THAT much bandwidth.

Still, if I have been reading a series of books, and then all of a sudden everything just starts being different....different characterizations, violating rules or the way things had been working, etc. the new works are flawed, and poor writing.

So yes, if a new writer is doing more than a filler issue or two, I would expect them to have read some key story arcs, and probably the old OHOTMU entries and at least have the broad brushes pretty consistent.

Do you think Brandon Sanderson did any research when he picked up from Robert Jordan? His take wasn't perfect, but it was pretty darned good, and true to the series in tone, characterization, etc.

So sure, someone new starts reading with Cates, and maybe they like it fine, but it does violate the sort of consistency that would keep you from landing an agent if it were in novel format.

I'm not saying that consistency is the only reason comics have dropped off so much since the Shooter days, but I do believe its a factor, and the consistency of a single set of creatives at the helm of the MCU has helped propel it to the juggernaut it currently is. Frankly, its why I don't really read comics any more, but maybe I'm not the target audience either.

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