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Subj: Re: If I respond to your inquiry right now I'll probably mysteriously vanish (be BANNED) before we can finish our discussion.
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 at 04:28:52 pm EST (Viewed 165 times)
Reply Subj: If I respond to your inquiry right now I'll probably mysteriously vanish (be BANNED) before we can finish our discussion.
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 at 03:16:44 pm EST (Viewed 147 times)
Quote:Trick? How is it a trick when it's within your arsenal of weapons and resources to utilize against a foe?
Because I'm not sure that Odin could have subdued the Mother Storm without it.
If we're having a discussion about the relative power of Odin and the Mother Storm I think the use of a McGuffin is a relevant qualifier.
*Especially* since we've seen the Mother Storm via Mjolnir trump Odin several times in Aaron's revised canon.
Quote:I don't remember the battle going the way as you see it. Odin won the battle because the Mother Storm grew tired and weak breaking the stalemate. Sure it took time, but in the end the Odin Power was shown to be superior.
Odin was battered and after days of battle he waited until he sensed the Mother Storm tire then used "all of his almighty might" to entrap the Storm in a chunk of Uru.
Did Odin display superior power? I think that's questionable.
What I don't see as debatable is that Odin used strategy and a unique item to imprison the Mother Storm.
Quote:At that point Odin was in charge and probably could have destroyed the Tempest but instead decided to encase/imprison it in Uru to use it's power for his benefit. Although that plan didn't work (well yes and no depending on who's telling the story, Aaron or Thor cannon), Odin typically has done similar things over the ages against foes who wielded tremendous power (Mangog immediately comes to mind). Instead of choosing to kill, he's used a nobler decision to subdue his enemy. Not always, but there is a track record of him doing so, right?
Sure, but in this instance Odin proved unable to wield the weapon he helped to create.
If Odin truly had superior power it seems he could have bent the entrapped Storm (and Mjolnir) to his will. The whole situation made him look bad; IMO, when historically Mjolnir's feats have have buffed Odin's brand.
Quote:What’s telling to me is that Aaron portrayed Odin as not fully understanding how he even accomplished the feat and utterly powerless to control the newly forged Mjolnir because of the Mother Storm's power and influence.
Even when Aaron gave Odin a W he couldn’t resist tearing him down later in the very same issue.
Quote:I'll have to re-read that issue but I didn't get that sentiment at all. Odin was fully in control of the situation when he accomplished the feat.
"The All-Father had trapped the Storm inside the Uru. Through what dark and primal magic, even he could not say." - Lord High Librarian of the Halls of the All-Knowing
It read to me as though Odin himself wasn't quite sure how he pulled it off.
Quote:In the beginning after Mjolnir was forged and the Mother Storm imprisoned within it, Odin put his enchantments on it because he couldn't wield it. Which BTW we all know is plain silly as shown in Thor Cannon, he wielded the hammer numerous times with no problems. Hence your grievance with the whole Tempest fiasco, I know, I know, and agree with it.
Right, this is why I see it as a retcon designed to diminish Odin.
Quote:But the point I'm making here is the Mother Storm was not only initially imprisoned by a creation of Odin, his enchantments rendered the Tempest completely subdued to the point it wasn't active for centuries afterwards (referring back to my plain silly comment above).
The enchantment rendered the hammer unable to be wielded by most. But as we saw the Mother Storm was able to either overpower or hijack those enchantments.
Quote:The Mother Storm was imprisoned into the chunk of Uru that was forged into Mjolnir. The Mother Storm entrapment predated the forging of Mjolnir.
Quote:Yes, thanks for that, for some reason I remembered the story differently.
Quote:IMO, Aaron’s run proved that the Mother Storm either fueled or hijacked Odin’s enchantments (or likely both).
The Mother Storm could choose who was worthy (including Odin), who it flew for — how well it flew for them, etc.
Quote:Yes in total agreement even though of course there was never any explanation as to why all of a sudden this was possible.
Par for the course for both Aaron and Cates.
Quote:I'm referring to the time Odin first tried to use the freshly forged Mjolnir and the Mother Storm (via Mjolnir) nearly destroyed Asgard while it dragged Odin around helplessly. Odin proved powerless to wield or control Mjolnir unless the Mother Storm cooperated.
We saw Mjolnir blatantly defy and/or overpower Odin numerous times under Aaron while historically Odin had complete mastery over Mjolnir’s enchantments since they were solely products of his power.
Quote:Correct Sir! But Odin forced it's cooperation by placing the enchantments on the hammer, which by no other explanation I can think of right now, knocked the God Tempest out for centuries allowing Odin to wield the hammer numerous times over the ages as shown in the pages of Thor.
It's strange, it seems Aaron's Mjolnir (even pre-worthiness enchantment) could not act of its own accord but when wielded the Mother Storm could assert its influence and wreak havoc.
Odin placed the enchantment on it to prevent others from wielding it.
"Odin's ride had nearly destroyed Asgard. He forbade anyone from ever speaking of it again.
The weapon was too unbridled, he swore. Too wild and untamed even for the gods. And if it would not be wielded by him, then it could rot for all he cared.
So the All-father placed enchantments on the hammer that would make it all but impossible for anyone else to ever lift it."
Quote:How else can it be explained then, when the times Mjolnir was broken, this Mother Storm wasn't released then? Or the time Dr.Strange, the Master of the Mystic Arts didn't detect it's presence, active or inactive due to Odin's enchantments--when he bonded the hammer to Thor's lifeforce as a consequence of repairing the hammer?
It was a typical Aaron retcon, meaning it had zero emphasis on maintaining established continuity or any internal consistency/verisimilitude.
Quote:Cates clean up a mess? That will be the first time he's done so at Marvel. Cates is Aaron's self-professed protege and names Aaron's Thor run as his “all time favorite” comic run, don't hold your breath for Cates to clean anything of Aaron's up.
Quote:Yes but how else is this going to end? Thor will get the hammer back without the Storm being around to circumvent the enchantments right?
Mjolnir flies better for women according to Aaron, perhaps Thor becomes the first trans Avenger in order to get on better terms with his hammer?
It's interesting to me that Mjolnir, which is a thoroughly masculine object, is shown to be a feminine force by feminist writers.
Quote:Cates Or Aaron? Aaron was the one who brought the total nonsense into the pages of Thor.
Cates is the one that chose to rehash the Mother Storm retcon with his his God of Hammers arc. I see this more as Cates' doubling down rather than cleaning up.
Quote:While I won't debate the point with you. Certainly we have grounds to believe your prediction is spot-on, let's just see how the story wraps up before we completely throw Cates under the bus. Show a little restraint first.
Quote:Fair enough my friend?
Fair enough, we'll revisit this after this arc has concluded.