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Subj: Re: If I respond to your inquiry right now I'll probably mysteriously vanish (be BANNED) before we can finish our discussion.
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 at 02:34:17 pm EST (Viewed 221 times)
Reply Subj: Re: If I respond to your inquiry right now I'll probably mysteriously vanish (be BANNED) before we can finish our discussion.
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 at 12:48:16 pm EST (Viewed 226 times)
Quote:Sometimes in battle the only way to end it is through killing your opponent. Fortunately for Odin he had a means to not execute his foe.
All I'm saying is that Odin having superior power is debatable given what we were shown.
Quote:This is the power of the Mother Storm PLUS the hammer. Even then, it wasn't a direct confrontation, it was Odin simply trying to control his prisoner without killing it.
Isn't the power of the hammer just the power of the Mother Storm contained in Uru? That's basically what Odin suggested.
Dwarf, "The rumors are true. The Mother Storm...trapped in the Uru."
Eitri, "You... you want us to kill it for you, Lord Odin?"
Odin, "Don't be a fool. I want you to forge it. Such power will be mine to wield."
Another time when Odin tried to lift Mjolnir (when it was still in Asgard's armory) Odin directly blamed the Mother Storm for his inability to lift it.
Quote:Come on, you can do better than this. If Odin was battered, then what was the condition of the Storm if it had physical form?
Likewise I think you can do better as well.
I would envision your theoretical physical manifestation of the Mother Storm to be equally battered, since they were in a days long dead lock -- as apparent equals.
Quote:It would have been shown on it's back--defeated. Just because someone is battered doesn't mean you downplay their victory when clearly they are the only one standing at the end of the fight.
It would have been shown battered and gassed just as Odin was, minus the McGuffin that allowed Odin to pull out a last ditch entrapment.
Quote:Did Odin display superior power? I think that's questionable.
Quote:Yes he clearly did.
Take the Uru away and could have Odin subdued the Mother Storm with his own power? Nothing in the scene suggests that to be the case.
We see that through an expression of Odin's full power compounded with a block of Uru Odin was able to entrap a formless entity into a metal that is renowned for it's unique ability to absorb and retain magical energies.
We are then told even Odin himself isn't sure of the magics he used to pull it off.
Again, given the full context of the scene it is HIGHLY questionable that Odin's power proved superior to the Mother Storm's.
Is that one interpretation? Sure. But the story absolutely left it open enough to invite reasonable debate on the matter.
Quote:In the beginning this is true. But how do we not know later Odin found a way? The fact Odin wielded the hammer numerous times because the Storm was incapacitated for centuries, shows he found a way to bend the Storm to his will.
As the High Librarian of the Hall of the Unknowing said, the Mother Storm went inactive (incorrectly assumed dead) after millennia of entrapment in Uru.
In Aaron's continuity Odin never subdued the Mother Storm...it gave up due to it's long term imprisonment in Uru.
Quote:"The All-Father had trapped the Storm inside the Uru. Through what dark and primal magic, even he could not say." - Lord High Librarian of the Halls of the All-Knowing
Quote:That's to you, I interpret the events quite differently.
Then how do you interpret it?
How do you interpret the above quote?
Quote:Right, this is why I see it as a retcon designed to diminish Odin.
Quote:I don't see it that way at all.
How can you not?
Quote:The enchantment rendered the hammer unable to be wielded by most. But as we saw the Mother Storm was able to either overpower or hijack those enchantments.
Quote:Yes over time after being incapacitated for centuries or perhaps Mjolnir was exposed to something in battle that gave it strength to wake up and overcome the enchantments.
Quote:Or perhaps the unending events of Ragnarok became a factor, we just don't know. I will blame Aaron for the numerous unresolved plot holes he created.
No prize explanations? I think perhaps you should just accept that Marvel canon is utterly broken at this point.
Quote:He could have made this work if he wasn't such a lazy writer as proven by blatantly ignoring Thor mythos continuity. He had some really good ideas IMHO but was terrible at executing them through. He didn't take anytime to think things through to appeal to us long-time Thor fans.
And yet you jump through hoops defending Aaron's choices as we've just seen. Color me confused.
Quote:Par for the course for both Aaron and Cates.
Quote:It's strange, it seems Aaron's Mjolnir (even pre-worthiness enchantment) could not act of its own accord but when wielded the Mother Storm could assert its influence and wreak havoc.
Odin placed the enchantment on it to prevent others from wielding it.
Quote:Yes he did, but again, he wielded it himself even in battle on numerous occasions which means the Mother Storm was subdued at that point.
I see it as disparate canon, Aaron's own attempt for that No Prize is that the Mother Storm just gave up after years of entrapment and was actually assumed dead by all.
What's clear is that Odin never used his "superior power" to subdue the Mother Storm after Mjolnir's forging.
Quote:"Odin's ride had nearly destroyed Asgard. He forbade anyone from ever speaking of it again.
Quote:Until he found a way to control the Storm later.
Pretty much disproven in Thor #12 by the High Librarian of the Halls of the All-Knowing.
Jane Foster, "So...it IS alive?"
Librarian, "Perhaps it was once. But that was countless eons ago. Not even the greatest of storms could survive that long trapped in Uru."
Jane Foster, "But it SPOKE to me..."
Aaron is clearly indicating the Mother Storm was assumed to have died and but really just went inactive yet something about Jane woke it up. Girl-power I assume...
Quote:The weapon was too unbridled, he swore. Too wild and untamed even for the gods. And if it would not be wielded by him, then it could rot for all he cared.
Quote:Yes in the beginning....but what happened later?
The Mother Storm woke up again and prevented Odin from overcoming his own worthiness enchantment on the Moon and helped Jane Foster humble him in a fight.
Quote:It was a typical Aaron retcon, meaning it had zero emphasis on maintaining established continuity or any internal consistency/verisimilitude.
Quote:I agree but if he had gone further in explanation, he could have made the entire story work from the beginning.
But he didn't; IMO, because he is lazy and doesn't fully consider the repercussions of his choices. Neither has Cates thus far. Cates is even worse in this respect, IMO.
Quote:Mjolnir flies better for women according to Aaron, perhaps Thor becomes the first trans Avenger in order to get on better terms with his hammer?
Quote:Thor wasn't the only hero affected by the Power Girls strategy to appeal to women to buy Marvel's products.
Quote:It's interesting to me that Mjolnir, which is a thoroughly masculine object, is shown to be a feminine force by feminist writers.
Quote:It was temporary however right? Well besides the upcoming movie to include inclusion and diversity for everyone to enjoy.
I thought so until Cates revealed the God of Hammer to be a woman, presumably the Mother Storm unleashed.
Quote:Cates is the one that chose to rehash the Mother Storm retcon with his his God of Hammers arc. I see this more as Cates' doubling down rather than cleaning up.
Quote:We'll have to wait and see what happens but I wouldn't bet against you at this point.
Quote:Fair enough, we'll revisit this after this arc has concluded.
Quote:Assuming I'm not BANNED again LOL!!! If I don't show up, it means I was assassinated.
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